Why our children don't think there are moral facts

[RENCORP]

Soly.

All realities are real.

Some realities are more real than others.

Sheesh

.You done gone all George Orwell on us.

Step away from your " real-er " reality - everything is real in the real world.

[hkcavalier]

Could you not see the Overton Window? I define 'left' as Statist (big centralized government) and 'right' as Libertarian (maximum individual freedom). I think you're using the old European understanding of left and right.

As my Nolan Chart (below, the star is where I scored) indicates, I'm not that interested in 'liberal-conservative' differences. The greater impact on our lives is the vertical axis, and both parties are headed 'downward' . . . .

No, I cannot use the Overton Window, because according to your interpretation, Nazies, Franco, Pinochet, Mussolini are all left wingers. Which is a spectacularly and obviously wrong statement. You need to join the reality-based community at some point...

Please don't tell me you think fascists and communists align at opposite poles. Their beliefs, both on paper and in action, are almost identical.

[kf7mjf]

So Yeah. WWII. Fascists and Communists. Bitter enemies.

[CQBgopher]

So Yeah. WWII. Fascists and Communists. Bitter enemies.

Sort of. Things may have been different had one bad guy not gotten greedy.

[solyanik]

Ummm... You guys know what fascism is? As in, a definition? What are fascists' view on private property? How do they differ from that of communists?

[kf7mjf]

So Yeah. WWII. Fascists and Communists. Bitter enemies.

Sort of. Things may have been different had one bad guy not gotten greedy.

Not really...

[kf7mjf]

Here is a real nice, really simple definition of socialism, capitalism, communism, and fascism. I expect much wailing and gnashing of teeth over them.

http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/engl_258 ... efined.htm

[CQBgopher]

Ummm... You guys know what fascism is? As in, a definition? What are fascists' view on private property? How do they differ from that of communists?

It's a difficult word to define correctly. By most definitions is is extreme "right wing" compared to Communism being extreme "left wing" although there are people who claim it to be a middle-left leaning ideology.

As far as private property, or private enterprise, under most definitions of a Fascist State, they are both allowed and encouraged, as long as the property and enterprise are kept in line with the ultimate goal of the State.

So, if your Fascist State is the #1 apple producer in the world, and your private enterprise grows apples, you may not garner much favor from the State if you decide to cut all the apple trees down and start growing almonds.

[CQBgopher]

So Yeah. WWII. Fascists and Communists. Bitter enemies.

Sort of. Things may have been different had one bad guy not gotten greedy.

Not really...

I don't think Stalin saw the "allies" as an "ally" for anything other than an opportunity to smash on Hitler over the whole Poland thing, and subsequent 'sneak attack'. Like in pro wrestling when a bad guy and a good guy hook up to eliminate a REALLY bad guy, then after the REALLY bad guy is thrown over the top rope they go back to not liking each other again.

[DSynger]

Her illegal activities back in the 70's to try to stamp out pornography in San Fran also show how extreme she is to her own views.

So now that we agree that Feinstein is no progressive (you wouldn't expect a progressive to try and ban porn, would you? For a liberal, First Amendment is even more important than Second Amendment to a conservative) - would you like me to go and dissect Pelosi's political positions? Of can you read her website yourself. Pelosi is nothing even close to a extremist. She is very much a centrist, and would make a reasonable Republican Senator in 1970s.

Ah... so it was the Conservatives that were opposed to Citizens United, which the ACLU supported. The Liberals were all for removing any type of restriction on government regulation of the 1st Amendment. Because I thought it was the other way around... 1st Amendment support is not one side or the other, they both use to their own ends. I know many Conservatives who use the 1st Amendment for religious purposes.

I think you're argument is moot... While mine still stands that Feinstein is extreme. She had people associated with the porn establishments in San Fran arrested illegally. It got to the point where the courts recognized this and would drop the cases when they came up in court.

I don't even think I mentioned Pelosi... I recognize that there are more conservative extremists in Congress than liberal ones. I think religion plays a big part of that.

[Guns4Liberty]

We now return you to our regularly scheduled program: "Why our children don't think there are moral facts"

Can a moral value judgment be both opinion AND fact? Discuss.

[kf7mjf]

It is a fact a moral value judgement is moral to whichever group codifies it in it's morals.

Certain morals can be both opinion and fact, namely those which are not universal natural law constants. Fact to whichever groups adhere to them, and opinion to everyone who does not.

[DSynger]

Fact to whichever groups adhere to them, and opinion to everyone who does not.

Doesn't that just about sum it?

It's kinda like the white and gold dress picture, I would bet money the dress is white and gold, that's just how my eyes see it. Regardless of what I saw with my own eyes, it was the truth...

http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/the-science-behind-the-black-and-blue--or-white-and-gold--dress-405695555960

[solyanik]

Her illegal activities back in the 70's to try to stamp out pornography in San Fran also show how extreme she is to her own views.

So now that we agree that Feinstein is no progressive (you wouldn't expect a progressive to try and ban porn, would you? For a liberal, First Amendment is even more important than Second Amendment to a conservative) - would you like me to go and dissect Pelosi's political positions? Of can you read her website yourself. Pelosi is nothing even close to a extremist. She is very much a centrist, and would make a reasonable Republican Senator in 1970s.

Ah... so it was the Conservatives that were opposed to Citizens United, which the ACLU supported. The Liberals were all for removing any type of restriction on government regulation of the 1st Amendment. Because I thought it was the other way around... 1st Amendment support is not one side or the other, they both use to their own ends. I know many Conservatives who use the 1st Amendment for religious purposes.

I think you're argument is moot... While mine still stands that Feinstein is extreme. She had people associated with the porn establishments in San Fran arrested illegally. It got to the point where the courts recognized this and would drop the cases when they came up in court.

I don't even think I mentioned Pelosi... I recognize that there are more conservative extremists in Congress than liberal ones. I think religion plays a big part of that.

Feinstein IS extreme - extremely stupid, but she is not at all extremely liberal. She is not even mildly liberal.

Wrt Citizens United, the position of Liberals is that corporations are not people and so First Amendment, as well as any other human rights, do not apply to them.

[solyanik]

Ummm... You guys know what fascism is? As in, a definition? What are fascists' view on private property? How do they differ from that of communists?

It's a difficult word to define correctly. By most definitions is is extreme "right wing" compared to Communism being extreme "left wing" although there are people who claim it to be a middle-left leaning ideology.

As far as private property, or private enterprise, under most definitions of a Fascist State, they are both allowed and encouraged, as long as the property and enterprise are kept in line with the ultimate goal of the State.

So, if your Fascist State is the #1 apple producer in the world, and your private enterprise grows apples, you may not garner much favor from the State if you decide to cut all the apple trees down and start growing almonds.

It's very, very easy. The link that k7 supplied does it perfectly well.