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Posted: **Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:20 pm**

Gumebare wrote:
OhShoot! wrote:[quote="TINCANBANDIT" Christians are a scary bunch....this one time my friend got invited to Sunday Services....can you imagine the horror?

just a few weeks ago I had some Mormon thugs dressed like the guys from Pulp Fiction hand me some literature on my front porch...I almost fainted from fear

...And some hung black folks from trees by their necks too.

I really hope your being sarcastic here[/quote]
The KKK cited Christianity just as ISIS cites Islam. I don't see much difference.

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:04 am**

OhShoot! wrote:
Gumebare wrote:
OhShoot! wrote:[quote="TINCANBANDIT" Christians are a scary bunch....this one time my friend got invited to Sunday Services....can you imagine the horror?

just a few weeks ago I had some Mormon thugs dressed like the guys from Pulp Fiction hand me some literature on my front porch...I almost fainted from fear

...And some hung black folks from trees by their necks too.

I really hope your being sarcastic here

The KKK cited Christianity just as ISIS cites Islam. I don't see much difference.[/quote]

There is a difference, the Bible did not direct them to kill African Americans.....also the other Christians (and non-Christians) condemned the actions and brought justice to those convicted

Back to the question about ISLAM

Question:

Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence?

Summary Answer:

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God, however this can work both ways. Most of today's Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book's call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Apologists cater to their preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad's own martial legacy - and that of his companions - along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.

From: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran ... olence.htm

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:13 am**

SOME of you guys really need to read "The Story of Mohammed" and stop defending Islam out of some warped sense of "fairness" which you don't extend to Judaism or Christianity.

Yes the religion can and is used to promote violence much more than any religion in 2015. Yes the past is important. But we live in the now.

And no don't start with your hate and your crap about your perception about my intolerance. Because I know the average Muslim is not violent. Nor do they go day to day wishing bad things on infidels. But, nor do they rally for a reformation..........because back to the original guy.....it is forbidden.

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:18 am**

Can anyone explain the very enlightened culture that existed around the time of the First Crusade, explain who exactly provided the knowledge and science that pulled Europe out of the Dark Ages, and why the particular breed of Islamic radicalism we see now is a relativity modern phenomenon rooted in political instability and post colonialism unrest?

The problem isn't Islam. The problem is a whole bunch of other things. Jordan is a peaceful Islamic state. Iran was until the CIA fucked it around. Afghanistan was until the Soviets invaded. Egypt is trying hard to go that route.

The Koran is shitty. Most religious books are. But look where and what drives the most crazy fundamentalist sects. You don't see Mississippi and Appalachia level Christian crazy in Seattle, and you don't see places like Jordan rocked with sectarian violence.

Terrorists are like street gangs with a religious mandate. I can assure you, were the Crips ever to find Jesus, we'd have so serious problems in this country.

Why were the Irish Catholics and Protestants killing each other until recently? What was the root of that violence and terrorism? How can those lessons there be applied to radical Islam?

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:21 am**

TINCANBANDIT wrote:Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text.

That's a hand-wave. The stuff in the old testament is equally violent and equally open ended.

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:28 am**

TINCANBANDIT wrote:. . . Question:
Does the Quran really contain dozens of verses promoting violence? . . .

Not claiming to be an expert, but I did do some (translated) original source reading a couple summers ago, and my understanding from that is that the frequently cited 'kill the Jews' and similar language is not in the Quran, but in the Hadiths.
:wavey:

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:30 am**

kf7mjf wrote:Can anyone explain the very enlightened culture that existed around the time of the First Crusade, explain who exactly provided the knowledge and science that pulled Europe out of the Dark Ages, and why the particular breed of Islamic radicalism we see now is a relativity modern phenomenon rooted in political instability and post colonialism unrest?
...
Why were the Irish Catholics and Protestants killing each other until recently? What was the root of that violence and terrorism? How can those lessons there be applied to radical Islam?

Newsflash: It's 2015, and radicals are killing scores of people around the globe in the name of ISLAM, and calling for the deaths of many more. Christians are not doing the same. Come back to reality.

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:46 am**

Pablo wrote:SOME of you guys really need to read "The Story of Mohammed" and stop defending Islam out of some warped sense of "fairness" which you don't extend to Judaism or Christianity.

How are we being preferential to Islam? Where have I shown intolerance toward Christians and Jews? More unsubstantiated accusations...

Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:49 am**

CurtisLemansky wrote:
Pablo wrote:SOME of you guys really need to read "The Story of Mohammed" and stop defending Islam out of some warped sense of "fairness" which you don't extend to Judaism or Christianity.

How are we being preferential to Islam? Where have I shown intolerance toward Christians and Jews? More unsubstantiated accusations...

Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0

I didn't say YOU. You are a bit sensitive, but natural given the subject matter.

On this very page is an example:

You don't see Mississippi and Appalachia level Christian crazy in Seattle...

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:51 am**

Guns4Liberty wrote:
kf7mjf wrote:Can anyone explain the very enlightened culture that existed around the time of the First Crusade, explain who exactly provided the knowledge and science that pulled Europe out of the Dark Ages, and why the particular breed of Islamic radicalism we see now is a relativity modern phenomenon rooted in political instability and post colonialism unrest?
...
Why were the Irish Catholics and Protestants killing each other until recently? What was the root of that violence and terrorism? How can those lessons there be applied to radical Islam?

Newsflash: It's 2015, and radicals are killing scores of people around the globe in the name of ISLAM, and calling for the deaths of many more. Christians are not doing the same. Come back to reality.

BREAKING things don't happen in a vacuum, and you managed to not only ignore my run up to the modern day, but refused to discuss any of my points.

Sykes Picot is one of the answers I was looking for by the way. The Fox News version of Islam and history ain't gonna help here.

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:53 am**

Pablo wrote:SOME of you guys really need to read "The Story of Mohammed" and stop defending Islam out of some warped sense of "fairness" which you don't extend to Judaism or Christianity.

Yes the religion can and is used to promote violence much more than any religion in 2015. Yes the past is important. But we live in the now.

And no don't start with your hate and your crap about your perception about my intolerance. Because I know the average Muslim is not violent. Nor do they go day to day wishing bad things on infidels. But, nor do they rally for a reformation..........because back to the original guy.....it is forbidden.

I for one have repeatedly stated the average Christian is harmless and decent. Also, as for not rallying for reform...

Arab Spring anyone?

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:54 am**

Pablo wrote:
CurtisLemansky wrote:
Pablo wrote:SOME of you guys really need to read "The Story of Mohammed" and stop defending Islam out of some warped sense of "fairness" which you don't extend to Judaism or Christianity.

How are we being preferential to Islam? Where have I shown intolerance toward Christians and Jews? More unsubstantiated accusations...

Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0

I didn't say YOU. You are a bit sensitive, but natural given the subject matter.

On this very page is an example:

You don't see Mississippi and Appalachia level Christian crazy in Seattle...

You don't see ISIS crazy in Seattle either.

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:56 am**

The point of this topic still eludes some... here it is again, bullet point format (emphasis added):

kf7mjf wrote:Moderate/secular Jews good.
Moderate/secular Christians good.
Moderate/secular Muslims good.

Radical/Militant Jews bad.
Radical/Militant Christians bad.
Radical/Militant Muslims bad.

Yes, they do exist and all Muslims shouldn't have to prove their innocence because less than 0.01% of their population are doing bad things.

Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0

Posted: **Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:59 am**

CurtisLemansky wrote:
Yes, they do exist and all Muslims shouldn't have to prove their innocence because less than 0.01% of their population are doing bad things.

Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0

Kinda like when gun owners and the NRA are all blamed for criminal misuse of guns.

Posted: **Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:07 pm**

kf7mjf wrote:
CurtisLemansky wrote:
Yes, they do exist and all Muslims shouldn't have to prove their innocence because less than 0.01% of their population are doing bad things.

Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0

Kinda like when gun owners and the NRA are all blamed for criminal misuse of guns.

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Does Islam Promote Violence?

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Does Islam Promote Violence?

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