one of the nations top cop's shot

[Ops]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/28/us/boston ... index.html

[MadPick]

That's horrible. And with a .357 Mag, too.

He sounds like a tough guy; hopefully he can pull through.

[Massivedesign]

That sucks...

"Without provocation, as the driver is getting out ... you can see his right arm come up point-blank and shot officer Moynihan right below the eye," Evans said.

Evans described the officers approach as "very low key" and said they weren't "even close to having their guns out."

After shooting Moynihan, the suspect ran, turned around and fired at the other officers -- emptying his .357 Magnum, according to Evans.

Evans said a middle-aged woman was who driving by at the time suffered a flesh wound in the right arm. She was not identified.

The shooter, identified as 41-year-old Angelo West, was shot and killed. Evans said West had several prior gun convictions.

[Ball Shtuck]

Sad. Another reminder of the danger LE put themselves in every day. Hope he pulls through and glad the dirtbag that shot him is dead.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[L_O_G]

Damn that sucks.

[dennydp]

Glad the dirt bag was removed from earth. Fast recovery for the officer

[TechnoWeenie]

Before I go on my spiel, I wanna say that yes, good cops shouldn't get shot, and it appears that it was the case. I wish him a speedy recovery.

However...that doesn't mean that there aren't questions.

1. Why was this vehicle being pulled over? They mention that 'previously in the night, shots were fired, and officers were in the area', that doesn't explain. If it was 'matching the description of', then they would have said that.

2. 6 police cars to pull someone over for... ? See #1, if it was a vehicle involved in a shooting, they wouldn't have just walked up to the car, without guns drawn

3. Self fulfilling prophecy? People are put into a frame of mind that they will be shot at by police with little hesitation, putting the idea into criminals heads that if they want to get away, they have to not hesitate in shooting first. The loss of respect for the people who do the job, and what it represents, exacerbate the issue.

4. There is an argument, although a BS one, that it could be considered self defense. I'm not pushing this argument, and it has little merit, but it is an argument that can be made. With the recent shootings that have been publicized as 'murders' and 'executions', knowing Boston's sometimes heavy handed tactics, being pulled over by 6 police cars, one could think that they were gonna be 'the next Mike Brown'.... You can't resist 'just a little'... You'll still get shot... See #3

5. In ref to #4, if I am getting pulled over by 6 police cars, I'm gonna KNOW it's not a 'routine traffic stop', and likewise, knowing the credibility and use of force issues with a lot of officers/agencies, even as someone who hasn't done anything wrong, and not a POS drug dealer with multiple convictions, I'd be really hesitant to cooperate with being asked to get out. Likewise, if guns were pulled, self preservation would kick in, and I would not be staying there. If law abiding citizens with nothing to hide are questioning the motivations of police, and hesitating complying, I can only imagine what a criminal would think.

[codfather]

[H2obouget]

Before I go on my spiel, I wanna say that yes, good cops shouldn't get shot, and it appears that it was the case. I wish him a speedy recovery.

However...that doesn't mean that there aren't questions.

1. Why was this vehicle being pulled over? They mention that 'previously in the night, shots were fired, and officers were in the area', that doesn't explain. If it was 'matching the description of', then they would have said that.

2. 6 police cars to pull someone over for... ? See #1, if it was a vehicle involved in a shooting, they wouldn't have just walked up to the car, without guns drawn

3. Self fulfilling prophecy? People are put into a frame of mind that they will be shot at by police with little hesitation, putting the idea into criminals heads that if they want to get away, they have to not hesitate in shooting first. The loss of respect for the people who do the job, and what it represents, exacerbate the issue.

4. There is an argument, although a BS one, that it could be considered self defense. I'm not pushing this argument, and it has little merit, but it is an argument that can be made. With the recent shootings that have been publicized as 'murders' and 'executions', knowing Boston's sometimes heavy handed tactics, being pulled over by 6 police cars, one could think that they were gonna be 'the next Mike Brown'.... You can't resist 'just a little'... You'll still get shot... See #3

5. In ref to #4, if I am getting pulled over by 6 police cars, I'm gonna KNOW it's not a 'routine traffic stop', and likewise, knowing the credibility and use of force issues with a lot of officers/agencies, even as someone who hasn't done anything wrong, and not a POS drug dealer with multiple convictions, I'd be really hesitant to cooperate with being asked to get out. Likewise, if guns were pulled, self preservation would kick in, and I would not be staying there. If law abiding citizens with nothing to hide are questioning the motivations of police, and hesitating complying, I can only imagine what a criminal would think.

Answers to 1-5) Multiple gun convictions = Felon...
parole means you are subject to search on a whim.
Possible guns in car does not mean there ARE guns in the car...assume, but verify.
Feeling trapped...try busted yet again...and was likely on a 3 strike warning...wasn't willing to do life.
Get fucking real...Felon with a gun! Self Def wouldn't be considered.
Wishful thinking...if you are not a criminal...6 cars becomes "Holy shit WTF!"... If you are a criminal...6 cars becomes, " Aw...Fuck na! I ain't getting busted again!"
And most taskforces roll everyone so some can work and the others can overwatch.

You are under the impression that all stops are traffic stops... Felony stops are handled very differently, and information stops on a felon are handled different too.
This sounds like a "Hey, there's Angelo...he always knows who's packing.. Let's go talk to him...he's still on parole , so he'll be compliant or he goes back to lock up." "OK." Bang.

[TechnoWeenie]

:shocked4:

Yes, because burying our heads in the sand and ignoring the loss of respect for law enforcement (and more importantly, the reason why), will work out fine. The problem doesn't exist if we don't talk about it right? I heard that was the best way to keep a healthy marriage, too.

Luckily, looking back 50 years, deaths have declined.

50 years ago...

1964 vs 2014



2014

Line of Duty Deaths: 127
9/11 related illness: 1
Assault: 2
Automobile accident: 26
Drowned: 2
Duty related illness: 3
Fire: 1
Gunfire: 47
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 19
Motorcycle accident: 4
Struck by vehicle: 5
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 10

1964

Line of Duty Deaths: 150
Accidental: 1
Aircraft accident: 3
Assault: 2
Automobile accident: 30
Bomb: 1
Drowned: 2
Fall: 1
Gunfire: 62
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 11
Motorcycle accident: 8
Struck by train: 1
Struck by vehicle: 9
Vehicle pursuit: 8
Vehicular assault: 8
Weather/Natural disaster: 1

[usrifle]

Before I go on my spiel, I wanna say that yes, good cops shouldn't get shot, and it appears that it was the case. I wish him a speedy recovery.

However...that doesn't mean that there aren't questions.

1. Why was this vehicle being pulled over? They mention that 'previously in the night, shots were fired, and officers were in the area', that doesn't explain. If it was 'matching the description of', then they would have said that.

2. 6 police cars to pull someone over for... ? See #1, if it was a vehicle involved in a shooting, they wouldn't have just walked up to the car, without guns drawn

3. Self fulfilling prophecy? People are put into a frame of mind that they will be shot at by police with little hesitation, putting the idea into criminals heads that if they want to get away, they have to not hesitate in shooting first. The loss of respect for the people who do the job, and what it represents, exacerbate the issue.

4. There is an argument, although a BS one, that it could be considered self defense. I'm not pushing this argument, and it has little merit, but it is an argument that can be made. With the recent shootings that have been publicized as 'murders' and 'executions', knowing Boston's sometimes heavy handed tactics, being pulled over by 6 police cars, one could think that they were gonna be 'the next Mike Brown'.... You can't resist 'just a little'... You'll still get shot... See #3

5. In ref to #4, if I am getting pulled over by 6 police cars, I'm gonna KNOW it's not a 'routine traffic stop', and likewise, knowing the credibility and use of force issues with a lot of officers/agencies, even as someone who hasn't done anything wrong, and not a POS drug dealer with multiple convictions, I'd be really hesitant to cooperate with being asked to get out. Likewise, if guns were pulled, self preservation would kick in, and I would not be staying there. If law abiding citizens with nothing to hide are questioning the motivations of police, and hesitating complying, I can only imagine what a criminal would think.

There are times when bringing up your agenda is not appropriate...

This is one of them.

[TechnoWeenie]

This sounds like a "Hey, there's Angelo...he always knows who's packing.. Let's go talk to him...he's still on parole , so he'll be compliant or he goes back to lock up." "OK." Bang.

I agree.

If they said 'police stopped a known gang member, previously associated with the suspect vehicle', or something similar, that'd answer a lot of questions.

They left out a LOT of detail, leading to the questions.


I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts, if it did go to trial, that he would attempt to use the self defense argument, even though it'd fail.

People wouldn't dare try to use such a defense in the past, but with all the BS surrounding high profile abuse cases, and even those cases where no wrongdoing occurred, it allows those to raise that defense and actually get listened to, even if it is bullshit.

[codfather]

:shocked4:

Yes, because burying our heads in the sand and ignoring the loss of respect for law enforcement (and more importantly, the reason why), will work out fine. The problem doesn't exist if we don't talk about it right? I heard that was the best way to keep a healthy marriage, too.

Luckily, looking back 50 years, deaths have declined.

50 years ago...

1964 vs 2014



2014

Line of Duty Deaths: 127
9/11 related illness: 1
Assault: 2
Automobile accident: 26
Drowned: 2
Duty related illness: 3
Fire: 1
Gunfire: 47
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 19
Motorcycle accident: 4
Struck by vehicle: 5
Vehicle pursuit: 5
Vehicular assault: 10

1964

Line of Duty Deaths: 150
Accidental: 1
Aircraft accident: 3
Assault: 2
Automobile accident: 30
Bomb: 1
Drowned: 2
Fall: 1
Gunfire: 62
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 11
Motorcycle accident: 8
Struck by train: 1
Struck by vehicle: 9
Vehicle pursuit: 8
Vehicular assault: 8
Weather/Natural disaster: 1

I've been with the same woman for 36 years and married for 31 years....am I one of the few..maybe but so are bad cops (one of the few) He had no right to come out shooting. With your views...how is your marriage???

[TechnoWeenie]

There are times when bringing up your agenda is not appropriate...

This is one of them.

What agenda?

I had a question.

I laid out a problem I saw, with people not respecting LE, and the consequences of it.

You're reading too far into it.

I stated in the very first sentence that it was BS and wished the officer a speedy recovery.

Am I not allowed to ask 'what happened?' or attempt to analyze the situation ?

[kf7mjf]

Yano, I have no respect for the culture law enforcement has.

But Jesus goddamn fucking Christ, most cops are decent people, and this was an unprovoked, fucked up shooting. Give it a rest. flawed subcultures or not, the average cop is stuck with a shitty job, dealing with shitty people, and dirty cops in their own ranks. This cop was a victim of crime and by all accounts one of the good ones.