WHEN MEN WERE MEN+HEROISM WAS DOING YOUR JOB, NO COMPLAINTS.

[WaJim]

Not to take away from the Raiders but....

My son and I visited the USS Hornet this past summer.

It was also an Apollo capsule recovery ship.

Its 45th anniversary of the 1969 man on the moon Apollo 11 capsule recovery was this past summer.

Pretty much the only thing in San Fran other than Alcatraz worth visiting.

[RENCORP]

There was no debating of the facts of the case, but the fallacy of insisting that a particular generation was the high water mark of certain largely indefinable traits detracts from the achievements of that generation, and demeans it by using it to create a false set of standards to further an agenda. There is a lot to focus on, trying to promote an ideological agenda is disgusting.

Yeah, hard work, personal sacrifice, serving your country, honesty, accountability, not getting a book deal or movie rights, that kind of behavior is disgusting.

We can spend a life time figuring out all of the stuff that the USA has done wrong since the beginning.

So fucking what ? Anyone can be a critic wearing the 'ole Sherman / Peabody Wayback Machine glasses.

I am sick and tired of just the negative being the topic of discussion when it comes to the USA.

Fuck that shit with a wire brush.

The USA is still the democratic light all people in the world look to.

The CITIZENS of the USA have in the past, in the present, and in the future, will continue to do extraordinary things that deserve mention, no, demand mention, as the hallmarks of a free society that the world can look up to.

It is about fucking well time enough for all of us to look to the positive, promote the positive, and act to ensure that this country throws off the crap, and continues to be the people and place the rest of the world can be proud of, and emulate.

In the USA, my cup is half full, not half empty.

[kf7mjf]

Try again Rene. You are putting words in my mouth that weren't there. To hold up the success of the Doolittle Raid to undermine the people who came later demeans the Raiders and all the greatness that came after.

You picked a high water point of military action that will likely never be duplicated and used it to claim that which came after is inferior, weak and incapable of duplicating the past. In other words, you used the heroism of WWII to demean what came after. And that is insulting to the soldiers of WWII and to those who came after.

[Guns4Liberty]

<snip>I am sick and tired of just the negative being the topic of discussion when it comes to the USA.</snip>

Amen.

[RENCORP]

Try again Rene. You are putting words in my mouth that weren't there. To hold up the success of the Doolittle Raid to undermine the people who came later demeans the Raiders and all the greatness that came after.

You picked a high water point of military action that will likely never be duplicated and used it to claim that which came after is inferior, weak and incapable of duplicating the past. In other words, you used the heroism of WWII to demean what came after. And that is insulting to the soldiers of WWII and to those who came after.

What brand of crack are you smoking ?

Those are my words, out of my mouth - they are not " in other words " - and, my words got nothing at all to do with you.

You are not my dictionary, my translator, or my clairvoyant, so do not interpret me to suit your agenda.

Holding the Dolittle Raid participants in high esteem has sweet fuck all to do with anything that comes along later, military, civilian, whatever - it merely holds their actions in high esteem, peri - fucking - ud.

Ask any military guy if he thinks holding the Dolittle Raiders accomplishments high demeans him and his accomplishments, and he will probably laugh his ass off at you.

There have been countless acts of courage both in the military and civilian population since the Raiders did their thing - the Raiders deserve mention because they are dying off, and because their annual meetings have become a thing of the past.

Honoring them and their accomplishments, and those of their generation is a mark of respect for them while they are still here, the few remaining.

I never claimed that ALL that came along later is weak, inferior, and incapable. Nor did I demean it. Nor did I insult the soldiers of WW2, or those who served in the military in the past, present, or future.

Courage is a medal few wear - those who show it, are those we admire, and aspire to become ourselves.

There are no criteria for honoring those people, no rules, no time line, no limits.

That is why we still speak of the Spartans, the 300. Masada. The Charge of the Light Brigade. Galippoli. Stalingrad. The Warsaw Ghetto. Hamburger Hill. Falujah. Any FOB in Afghanistan. Marcus Luttrell.

And countless others.

[kf7mjf]

Your title is "When men were men" which denotes a past tense, as if "men" no longer exist.

[golddigger14s]

EVERY generation has had its share of heroic men, and women. This is just one of many examples. So the generations before, and after are no more less worthy.

[RENCORP]

Your title is "When men were men" which denotes a past tense, as if "men" no longer exist.

In the immortal words of Ronald Raygun - " Well, there you go again "

Men exist, past, present, and future, hopefully.

The Raiders are from the past - news flash here for ya.

True heroism is - doing your job, under impossible circumstances, with no complaints, and no thought of reward or compensation.

The Raiders win that award based on accomplishment.

We can only admire them, and hope to be that kind of person.

[PMB]

From the first time that I read about the Doolittle Raiders I almost idolized them... There really is something special about that raid.

Here's the rub... It's probably not -those men- that created their greatness in our minds. Each of those men woke up with morning breath, said stupid things they regretted later, stunk up rooms on occasion, made idiot errors of judgment on occasion... They were men, just like us. Pants go on one leg at a time.
The times they lived in created that situation, and yet I still admire them greatly for their selfless actions in response. I get a visceral thrill in my gut when I think of their courage.

Books with titles like "The Greatest Generation" are silly to me. Nostalgia and "glory days" really do cause some folks to lose their perspective. The selfless soldiers (and civilians) of WW2 don't have to worry about having their heroism eclipsed any time soon- but that doesn't mean that there aren't equally heroic men and women today.

Shoot... have to run and I was about to type out a bunch here.
The fact that there's nothing particularly special about the individual men that risked (and those that gave) their lives in that raid doesn't at all diminish my awe of and respect for them. and

[usrifle]

Your title is "When men were men" which denotes a past tense, as if "men" no longer exist.

Take the post for what it was intended and let it go.

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[kf7mjf]

unsourced click bait ripped off from a CNN op ed?

[RENCORP]

It was an e-mail sent to me, no source quoted, and I didn't give a fuck about anything but the story.

So color me rayciss.

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[Old Jim]

unsourced click bait ripped off from a CNN op ed?

C'mon Steve, you made your point, do not belabor it. Give it a rest.

[kf7mjf]

unsourced click bait ripped off from a CNN op ed?

C'mon Steve, you made your point, do not belabor it. Give it a rest.

You're right. I'm gonna get burger

[APA]

Sure a lot of Steve's on WA guns. Lol.