WaGuns.org

George wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvtC-J3fYfo

I could find maybe 5,000 headlines, stories and videos to support the subject.
Our country can be considered unhinged by the political divide : A powder keg primed and ready for a match to be struck.

The fact that some of these people are trying to conceal their identities is proof that - deep down - they know what they are doing is unacceptable in a civil society and therefore they don't want anyone knowing who they are. I believe there is hope for them. The rest of them are a lost cause.

Guns4Liberty wrote:The fact that some of these people are trying to conceal their identities is proof that - deep down - they know what they are doing is unacceptable in a civil society and therefore they don't want anyone knowing who they are. I believe there is hope for them. The rest of them are a lost cause.

I am thinking about this... We rip on the antifa terrorists for wearing scarves on their faces, but haven't we talked about modifying our own (2A) footprints to "grease the skids" so to speak?
Examples :
PayPal purchases "disguised" as gifts or purchase not described..
Conceal carry.
Tragic boat accidents in which all of our 2A possessions are lost.

I know that they are different. I am just wondering about the roots in behavior, not on the differences.

The violent left and disgusting lunatics. The violent racists on the KKK side are as despicable.

But to comment on the wearing of masks, I'd say it's getting more prudent with online sharing and videos. Even those with the nobelist of intentions can be identified, stalked, harassed, and intimidated or worse, threatened and killed.

Counter terrorist units and drug units overseas are wearing masks these days to hide their identities, for instance.

Only a small % of these lunatics go demonstrate. The rest of these unhinged oddballs scour videos to ID participants and with facial recognition any lawful participant can be ID'd.

For example, while I don't condone his views, some of the participants from the VA protest has had his life ruined due to being ID'd and stalked by the fringe left.

PMB wrote:

Guns4Liberty wrote:The fact that some of these people are trying to conceal their identities is proof that - deep down - they know what they are doing is unacceptable in a civil society and therefore they don't want anyone knowing who they are. I believe there is hope for them. The rest of them are a lost cause.

I am thinking about this... We rip on the antifa terrorists for wearing scarves on their faces, but haven't we talked about modifying our own (2A) footprints to "grease the skids" so to speak?
Examples :
PayPal purchases "disguised" as gifts or purchase not described..
Conceal carry.
Tragic boat accidents in which all of our 2A possessions are lost.

I know that they are different. I am just wondering about the roots in behavior, not on the differences.

Paypal is discriminating against lawful sales.
Conceal carry is also legal. (in certain states/areas)
Again, we have legal rights and the left sees it necessary to control us the way they want.
I shouldn't have to give up any of my rights just because "they" don't feel comfortable.

PMB wrote:

Guns4Liberty wrote:The fact that some of these people are trying to conceal their identities is proof that - deep down - they know what they are doing is unacceptable in a civil society and therefore they don't want anyone knowing who they are. I believe there is hope for them. The rest of them are a lost cause.

I am thinking about this... We rip on the antifa terrorists for wearing scarves on their faces, but haven't we talked about modifying our own (2A) footprints to "grease the skids" so to speak?
Examples :
PayPal purchases "disguised" as gifts or purchase not described..
Conceal carry.
Tragic boat accidents in which all of our 2A possessions are lost.

I know that they are different. I am just wondering about the roots in behavior, not on the differences.

Can you expand upon what you mean about the roots in behavior? I'm not quite sure I know where you're going with that.

Guns4Liberty wrote:

PMB wrote:

Guns4Liberty wrote:The fact that some of these people are trying to conceal their identities is proof that - deep down - they know what they are doing is unacceptable in a civil society and therefore they don't want anyone knowing who they are. I believe there is hope for them. The rest of them are a lost cause.

I am thinking about this... We rip on the antifa terrorists for wearing scarves on their faces, but haven't we talked about modifying our own (2A) footprints to "grease the skids" so to speak?
Examples :
PayPal purchases "disguised" as gifts or purchase not described..
Conceal carry.
Tragic boat accidents in which all of our 2A possessions are lost.

I know that they are different. I am just wondering about the roots in behavior, not on the differences.

Can you expand upon what you mean about the roots in behavior? I'm not quite sure I know where you're going with that.

By definition, people believe that what they believe is correct, or they wouldn't believe it. (How's that for tautological? )
Knowing that what they are doing is "unacceptable" doesn't in ANY way (to my way of thinking) mean that they know that what they are doing is wrong.
I take liberty with "we" here now. "We" are careful in some of our actions to maintain anonymity in several areas. Many discussions have centered around open versus conceal carrying, and the purpose of conceal carry is manifest.
Leadcounsel touched on this in his reply.

I am not sure that the reason antifa terrorists wear masks is for anonymity- it could be the opposite. They may like the Che Guevera feeling.. Er, urban warfare, revolution, sticking it to the man. The scarves might actually be what makes them feel as part of the "front line" of their group, with the added benefit of longer time between arrests. I suspect that.
But if it is solely for anonymity and safety, the roots of the behavior are the same as ours when we conceal carry. Conceal carry may not be the best comparator, but certainly many of us have different reasons for open versus conceal.
See what I mean? I don't think it is because they feel that they are in the wrong... If I assume that they wear the scarves to conceal their identity (instead of as a terrorist rally uniform) it is because they want to make it to the next rally, or the next fight, or the next revolution.
Our individual responses and reasoning would all be different, but if the Crime Family had topped the polls last November and we were facing a repeal-by-reinterpretation of 2A and it led to armed confrontation, would some of us wear masks if it improved our chances of going home to our families that night?

Bottom line- I'm leaning away from thinking that they realize that what they are doing is wrong (I know that is not the phrase you used.) Thinking this may be akin to underestimating our enemy. They are probably just as fervent as we are, or even more, now that their side lost. They believe that they are right, and they will be willing to face armed opponents eventually. Maybe already.

Rick responded to only the parts that are different- Just trying to set the hook in my tender mouth again.
Rick, your bait is good, but once hooked twice shy buddy.

PMB wrote: They are probably just as fervent as we are, or even more, now that their side lost. They believe that they are right, and they will be willing to face armed opponents eventually. Maybe already.

I think a whole lot of them believe they are "ready" to face armed opponents, but belief is a long way from reality.

I've found myself down some rabbit holes reading some "after action" discussions between antifa members, and it actually reads like keystone cops.

I recall one exchange, where they were 101% ready to engage, but got their asses handed to them, and didn't understand why.

I'll hypothesize that most of the antifa are not military trained, whereas there are a whole bunch of 2a folks that have some pretty mad military skills.

PMB wrote:

Guns4Liberty wrote:

PMB wrote:

Guns4Liberty wrote:The fact that some of these people are trying to conceal their identities is proof that - deep down - they know what they are doing is unacceptable in a civil society and therefore they don't want anyone knowing who they are. I believe there is hope for them. The rest of them are a lost cause.

I am thinking about this... We rip on the antifa terrorists for wearing scarves on their faces, but haven't we talked about modifying our own (2A) footprints to "grease the skids" so to speak?
Examples :
PayPal purchases "disguised" as gifts or purchase not described..
Conceal carry.
Tragic boat accidents in which all of our 2A possessions are lost.

I know that they are different. I am just wondering about the roots in behavior, not on the differences.

Can you expand upon what you mean about the roots in behavior? I'm not quite sure I know where you're going with that.

By definition, people believe that what they believe is correct, or they wouldn't believe it. (How's that for tautological? )
Knowing that what they are doing is "unacceptable" doesn't in ANY way (to my way of thinking) mean that they know that what they are doing is wrong.
I take liberty with "we" here now. "We" are careful in some of our actions to maintain anonymity in several areas. Many discussions have centered around open versus conceal carrying, and the purpose of conceal carry is manifest.
Leadcounsel touched on this in his reply.

I am not sure that the reason antifa terrorists wear masks is for anonymity- it could be the opposite. They may like the Che Guevera feeling.. Er, urban warfare, revolution, sticking it to the man. The scarves might actually be what makes them feel as part of the "front line" of their group, with the added benefit of longer time between arrests. I suspect that.
But if it is solely for anonymity and safety, the roots of the behavior are the same as ours when we conceal carry. Conceal carry may not be the best comparator, but certainly many of us have different reasons for open versus conceal.
See what I mean? I don't think it is because they feel that they are in the wrong... If I assume that they wear the scarves to conceal their identity (instead of as a terrorist rally uniform) it is because they want to make it to the next rally, or the next fight, or the next revolution.
Our individual responses and reasoning would all be different, but if the Crime Family had topped the polls last November and we were facing a repeal-by-reinterpretation of 2A and it led to armed confrontation, would some of us wear masks if it improved our chances of going home to our families that night?

Bottom line- I'm leaning away from thinking that they realize that what they are doing is wrong (I know that is not the phrase you used.) Thinking this may be akin to underestimating our enemy. They are probably just as fervent as we are, or even more, now that their side lost. They believe that they are right, and they will be willing to face armed opponents eventually. Maybe already.

Rick responded to only the parts that are different- Just trying to set the hook in my tender mouth again.
Rick, your bait is good, but once hooked twice shy buddy.

A lot of them wear masks because they don't want to get voxxed, most just think they are tougher, or don't want mommy seeing them on the news

PMB wrote:

Guns4Liberty wrote:The fact that some of these people are trying to conceal their identities is proof that - deep down - they know what they are doing is unacceptable in a civil society and therefore they don't want anyone knowing who they are. I believe there is hope for them. The rest of them are a lost cause.

I am thinking about this... We rip on the antifa terrorists for wearing scarves on their faces, but haven't we talked about modifying our own (2A) footprints to "grease the skids" so to speak?
Examples :
PayPal purchases "disguised" as gifts or purchase not described..
Conceal carry.
Tragic boat accidents in which all of our 2A possessions are lost.

I know that they are different. I am just wondering about the roots in behavior, not on the differences.

Possibly a good point... hiding what much of society deems to be unacceptable.
Your examples are less than ideal though.

Paypal gifts or purchases are for two reasons. 1. As a gift the fee is less so it's just a way to save money. 2. They are not gun friendly and have cancelled transactions in the past I believe.

Concealed carry is a way to surprise the attacker.

The tragic boating accident has it's roots in not turning them in if there is a ban, or so that the government doesn't know who's door to kick in.

Unicorn wrote:

PMB wrote:

Guns4Liberty wrote:The fact that some of these people are trying to conceal their identities is proof that - deep down - they know what they are doing is unacceptable in a civil society and therefore they don't want anyone knowing who they are. I believe there is hope for them. The rest of them are a lost cause.

I am thinking about this... We rip on the antifa terrorists for wearing scarves on their faces, but haven't we talked about modifying our own (2A) footprints to "grease the skids" so to speak?
Examples :
PayPal purchases "disguised" as gifts or purchase not described..
Conceal carry.
Tragic boat accidents in which all of our 2A possessions are lost.

I know that they are different. I am just wondering about the roots in behavior, not on the differences.

Possibly a good point... hiding what much of society deems to be unacceptable.
Your examples are less than ideal though.

Paypal gifts or purchases are for two reasons. 1. As a gift the fee is less so it's just a way to save money. 2. They are not gun friendly and have cancelled transactions in the past I believe.

Concealed carry is a way to surprise the attacker.

The tragic boating accident has it's roots in not turning them in if there is a ban, or so that the government doesn't know who's door to kick in.

I've done a poor job again of putting the root meaning of my point into words. I apologize brethren.

My fellow WaGunners have been annoyed with me a few times in the past as I have argued against calling terrorists "cowards".
Guns4Liberty said something that has been repeated a few times in regards to the antifa terrorists, and I wanted to come about to my "DON'T UNDERESTIMATE OUR ENEMIES" argument from a different angle.
If we do underestimate them (or their purpose or resolve) we run the risk of being surprised by them.
I channel Gru, of Despicable Me here : Yes, Yes, I understand the comparisons are not ideal!

I compare the similarities, not the differences.
Many people carry concealed for multiple reasons, in addition to the surprise factor. One that is often mentioned is that people do not want to be identified as "gun people", and that Open Carry garners too much attention.
None of us who Conceal Carry do so believing that it is wrong.... So none of us are going to see the light, so to speak and leave our Tools of Freedom at home anytime soon. Ergo, antifa is probably here to stay.

Regarding PayPal. Your point supported my position sir. Not regarding the fees, but that we disguise something important to us. None of us who purchase 2A items believe that it is wrong, nor are we likely to stop. We'll keep buying 2A items because it is important to us. Bringing up my tautological "believe believe believe" statement from my 1st post in this thread, many antifa terrorists seem to strongly believe in their position. There are enough antifa parties spread around the country that we may be sure that not all of those scarf wearing roustabouts are catching planes between Boston and Phoenix and Portland and Seattle.
This is a movement, and we should be confident in their belief that their cause is right, despite their attempts to hide their faces.

The tragic boating accident... It is used as humor, usually, and your description of why we do it supports my position on antifa. We don't joke about hiding our Tools of Freedom because we are ashamed of them or believe that we are wrong for owning them. We do it (in a humorous way) to make it possible to do it even longer.
Ergo, antifa is here to stay.

Everyone is free to have their own opinions about the cowardice of terrorists or the staying power of the antifa. Of course. I've noticed that there seems to be a lot of talk about the weakness in our enemies (Hillary's impending medical failure months before the election, her impending indictment and arrest, Pelosi's utter vacuous stupidity, antifa's lack of military training and flash-in-the-pain possibility, etc.)

My point has been that I believe that this country is heading for something big, and underestimating opponents of Liberty could be dangerous.

PMB, you say the roots are the same. So you are saying we hide our transaction details from PayPal so we can do something illegal. We conceal our weapons to do something illegal. We lose guns in a boating accident to do something illegal.

Bad comparison. I do not hide my face when going to purchase a firearm. And neither do law abiding protestors when they visit a rally. We have nothing to hide because we do not have ill intentions.

The vast majority of the commienazi gestapo brownshirt antifas put those masks on for one reason... Internet.

Or more technically, perceived anonymity.

It gives them the feeling, that they are anonymous.

They feel like they can run into and out of a situation, 'trolling', and suffer little to no consequences.

antifa is the 'troll' of the real world.


They should be dealt with, the same way trolls are dealt with on the internet.

stompah wrote:PMB, you say the roots are the same. So you are saying we hide our transaction details from PayPal so we can do something illegal. We conceal our weapons to do something illegal. We lose guns in a boating accident to do something illegal.

Bad comparison. I do not hide my face when going to purchase a firearm. And neither do law abiding protestors when they visit a rally. We have nothing to hide because we do not have ill intentions.

Okey Dokey!
I find it crazy that I have to explain this.
Amused may be a better word.