WaGuns.org

Since it is trending to blow up the random thought thread, I thought I'd move the discussion here(?)

Talking about how this affects the legal standing of those charged, and the ways it opens/widens the Govt's power to investigate were the last few ideas bandied about...

This is from an article I read today about this very subject... In it there was a quote from Joey Gibson, the Japanese-American who led the Patriot Prayer group that got their asses kicked by Antifa in Berkely recently

The article for context:

Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2017/09/antifa ... z4raLVjfRI
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The quote which caught my eye as it applied to TW's question about how the status changes things:

"Joey told me, “They commit terrorist acts, but it's more complicated than that for two reasons. One, Antifa is more of an ideology then a group. That makes it difficult, it's like labeling hate as a terrorist organization. Who would be considered antifa?” Joey said. “Unfortunately the Patriot Act allows for the government to take away someone's rights by labeling him/her as a terrorist. I don't like that. We need to be hard on Antifa and put them in jail but we have to do it through the court of law.”

Good. Anyone showing up to a rally with armor, weapons and masks attacking their opposition should be considered terrorists.

Well, ANTIFA is a thought pattern but there are organizations that list themselves as ANTIFA in a lot of cities. By starting a website and gaining members they go from an idea into an organization. At that point the dynamic changes. Now is every single ANTIFA organization terrorist in nature? No, probably not. Protesting what they consider fascist practices is not necessarily terroristic. But it changes from an ideology to a group and a group can be considered terrorist if they advocate for violence in the pursuit of their political agenda.

To me it is no different than the militia movement a few decades ago. Despite what the Southern Poverty Law Center says not all right wing militias are terrorists. Planning and being ready for a possible collapse of the US government is not terrorist in nature. Advocating or actually trying to destabilize that government, like Timothy McVeigh did is another matter.

wklink wrote:Well, ANTIFA is a thought pattern but there are organizations that list themselves as ANTIFA in a lot of cities. By starting a website and gaining members they go from an idea into an organization. At that point the dynamic changes. Now is every single ANTIFA organization terrorist in nature? No, probably not. Protesting what they consider fascist practices is not necessarily terroristic. But it changes from an ideology to a group and a group can be considered terrorist if they advocate for violence in the pursuit of their political agenda.

To me it is no different than the militia movement a few decades ago. Despite what the Southern Poverty Law Center says not all right wing militias are terrorists. Planning and being ready for a possible collapse of the US government is not terrorist in nature. Advocating or actually trying to destabilize that government, like Timothy McVeigh did is another matter.

Well stated.

olydemon wrote:Good. Anyone showing up to a rally with armor, weapons and masks attacking their opposition should be considered terrorists.

Not quite that simple. What about gun owners carrying guns to rallies? I've gone to pro-gun rallies carrying. I'm not a terrorist...

But I get your overall point and agree. Protesters wearing armor, hoods, masks, and USING weapons should be immediately arrested and removed.

For these big out-of-control events we see all over, swoop in with overwhelming police and National Guard, lock the area down, and arrest EVERYONE. Charge EVERYONE for inciting riots and let their legal bills mount. The non-committed ones will tire of this game and stay home. Then the committed ones won't have masses to influence.

Make consequences for such arrests:
* Automatic suspension of any government cheese handouts
* Suspension of any student loans guaranteed by the federal government
* Eviction from any public housing
* Any other hammers to drop that can be thought of
* Huge fines to cover general costs and property damages

wklink wrote:Well, ANTIFA is a thought pattern but there are organizations that list themselves as ANTIFA in a lot of cities. By starting a website and gaining members they go from an idea into an organization. At that point the dynamic changes. Now is every single ANTIFA organization terrorist in nature? No, probably not. Protesting what they consider fascist practices is not necessarily terroristic. But it changes from an ideology to a group and a group can be considered terrorist if they advocate for violence in the pursuit of their political agenda.

To me it is no different than the militia movement a few decades ago. Despite what the Southern Poverty Law Center says not all right wing militias are terrorists. Planning and being ready for a possible collapse of the US government is not terrorist in nature. Advocating or actually trying to destabilize that government, like Timothy McVeigh did is another matter.

Yes well said

leadcounsel wrote:

olydemon wrote:Good. Anyone showing up to a rally with armor, weapons and masks attacking their opposition should be considered terrorists.

Not quite that simple. What about gun owners carrying guns to rallies? I've gone to pro-gun rallies carrying. I'm not a terrorist...

But I get your overall point and agree. Protesters wearing armor, hoods, masks, and USING weapons should be immediately arrested and removed.

For these big out-of-control events we see all over, swoop in with overwhelming police and National Guard, lock the area down, and arrest EVERYONE. Charge EVERYONE for inciting riots and let their legal bills mount. The non-committed ones will tire of this game and stay home. Then the committed ones won't have masses to influence.

Make consequences for such arrests:
* Automatic suspension of any government cheese handouts
* Suspension of any student loans guaranteed by the federal government
* Eviction from any public housing
* Any other hammers to drop that can be thought of
* Huge fines to cover general costs and property damages

And a solid kick to the fork

olydemon wrote:Good. Anyone showing up to a rally with armor, weapons and masks attacking their opposition should be considered terrorists.

You mean like these guys?

Seems like wearing armor and a mask would be considered a persons right. It's what happens that matters. Not what is worn. Unless its a swastika, and then I'd say just kill them on sight.

Big deal, they gotz an o-fish-yule title now.
The pole leece won't touch 'em, just like before.
They've had plenty of chances to bust every one of those little coward cocksucking Soro's soldiers but they didn't. This won't be any different.
Until the spineless governors, mayors and other 'city' officials put their foot down, and hard, nothing will change.

leadcounsel wrote:

olydemon wrote:Good. Anyone showing up to a rally with armor, weapons and masks attacking their opposition should be considered terrorists.

Not quite that simple. What about gun owners carrying guns to rallies? I've gone to pro-gun rallies carrying. I'm not a terrorist...

But I get your overall point and agree. Protesters wearing armor, hoods, masks, and USING weapons should be immediately arrested and removed.

For these big out-of-control events we see all over, swoop in with overwhelming police and National Guard, lock the area down, and arrest EVERYONE. Charge EVERYONE for inciting riots and let their legal bills mount. The non-committed ones will tire of this game and stay home. Then the committed ones won't have masses to influence.

Make consequences for such arrests:
* Automatic suspension of any government cheese handouts
* Suspension of any student loans guaranteed by the federal government
* Eviction from any public housing
* Any other hammers to drop that can be thought of
* Huge fines to cover general costs and property damages

Your example is not a good one. Do we as gun owners show up at anti gun rallies and with masks using our guns as weapons? No, I didnt think so.

AR15L wrote:

olydemon wrote:Good. Anyone showing up to a rally with armor, weapons and masks attacking their opposition should be considered terrorists.

You mean like these guys?

Those guys too... I consider terrorists......

leadcounsel wrote:

olydemon wrote:Good. Anyone showing up to a rally with armor, weapons and masks attacking their opposition should be considered terrorists.

Not quite that simple. What about gun owners carrying guns to rallies? I've gone to pro-gun rallies carrying. I'm not a terrorist...

But I get your overall point and agree. Protesters wearing armor, hoods, masks, and USING weapons should be immediately arrested and removed.

For these big out-of-control events we see all over, swoop in with overwhelming police and National Guard, lock the area down, and arrest EVERYONE. Charge EVERYONE for inciting riots and let their legal bills mount. The non-committed ones will tire of this game and stay home. Then the committed ones won't have masses to influence.

Make consequences for such arrests:
* Automatic suspension of any government cheese handouts
* Suspension of any student loans guaranteed by the federal government
* Eviction from any public housing
* Any other hammers to drop that can be thought of
* Huge fines to cover general costs and property damages

This is simply friggin' brilliant.

So simple, so effective.