I have brought this up several times before, and now I'm back looking for fresh ideas.

1639 is coming down the railroad tunnel, and we need to get BOTH Democrats and Republicans to understand what this kind of garbage does to our Natural Rights.
We need to do it in a way that doesn't divide, and push middle of the road (MOTR) people further away.

Ideas?

Fair warning :
Please, do not use this thread to talk about how stupid, ignorant and brainwashed Democrats are.

I will delete these types of posts, and that wastes my time and yours. We want ideas and solutions in this thread, not bitching.

Talk to MyNameis940. He has been telling me how him and many of the other millenials are pro-gun. He has some interesting perspectives.

As for "liberals" ( a misnomer) they seem to be discovering the 2A for their own reasons. (Technoweenie pointed out how the Red Block is arming up in preparation for revolution - That still makes it "partisan".)

I guess the best way to get mom and pop "liberal" or D on board is to point out instances where social justice is advanced by self-defense and self-determination. Tough sell since a lot of those folks are of a mind that "it could never happen here..."

I was going to 'tongue-in-cheek' suggest we start a civil war. Then they will be desperate for the right to bear arms, themselves. LOL

Remember a couple of years ago when the "Occupy" protests were in full swing? I want to know what all of those people aren't up in arms, as it were, about the evil 1% wanting to take away their civil rights?

They must have all moved back into their moms' basements. But still...

What needs to happen is reps from both parties to honestly stand by their convictions and promises, until I can legitimately see a democrat not tow the party line and vote against a gun control bill, I cannot trust them, and that is the heart of the issue, we had Democrats who had A ratings from the NRA before, but their own party ruined them in the primaries for more liberal candidates. What needs to happen is a pro gun democrat needs to defeat an anti gun republican in an election, and the only place that can happen is the east coast where you have some Rhinos who run on the republican ticket only because the democratic ticket is so overcrowded. But finding a true blue democrat who hates gun control is the true problem. The base of the Democratic Party is very good at weeding out people who don’t tow the party line. I can see a rural Dino who runs as a dem because the republican district is full, come out, but their problem would be getting support from their party, and they will need to cave for that support. If we want to see true change we need to break that system. To do that we need to win the propaganda war. Hollywood is throwing billions of dollars at this while we are just chucking millions. Another way we could do this, is get a conversion. We get a solid, big name, anti-gun Democrat to switch their position, start owning guns and go against the party on gun control, a blow like that would be phenomenal.

The big problem with your desire to bring others in, is simply this:

Big Government always distrusts an armed citizenry (as a challenge to their power/authority).

A person either believes the goverment has NO power except that granted by the governed and restricted by the Constitution or you don't.

so really the debate is the same that argued during the forming our government in the late 1700s.....Federalist or anti-Federalist

Back then everyone knew the danger a large central goverment could pose to the fragile freedom the 3%ers had just earned, but some were willing to take the gamble, the Constitution was the compromise.

These folks on the left are not Federalist or Anti-Federalist, they are Communists, plain and simple. I am not sure there is any reasoning you can do with the devout Communists.

Now for the folks who are not devout Commies and vote for the D because their Union or teachers or parents told them to, need to be sat down and asked a series of questions that will lead them to the same conclusion....big government is bad for everyone.

As Reagan used to say, "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take away everything that you have"

THIS. 1000%

Here’s an interesting video on how governments and countries develop and how it turns out. I’m not sure if this will help but it really does show why our right to self defense is needed because we are following down the same path as Rome.






Here’s the article I was talking about Jukk0u: https://www.npr.org/2018/02/24/58806994 ... polls-show

I try to make talk about the 2nd personal for whomever I'm talking to.

With gay or lesbian friends all I have to do is bring up Pulse, ask how worried they are about violence directed at them because of who they are, and what they could do to stop it.

Teachers are a tough nut to crack. All the ones I know have been firmly indoctrinated into the anti gun camp. I can throw out facts, statistics, and crush most of their arguments but I have yet to see the light bulb moment with any of them. The good thing is that these conversations usually take pace in front of other people and I see the opinions around the conversation change.

Those are just two examples but my hope is that if we bring enough people over to our side we won't have to fight the battle alone.

How long is a piece of string?
I believe that there is no "single" answer to your question. I understand this is frustrating and disappointing.
Everything is situational, especially when it comes to changing how someone thinks. You can't build a positive structure on a negative base. I believe that the *best*(not only) only thing each of us can do is whatever is required to take a been to the range and safely shoot a firearm.
no one does their best thinking while afraid. people fear the unknown. reduce the unknown,vreduce the fear, create opportunity for dialog/understanding.

It came out that he only chose pulse because of the lack of security. It wasn’t an anti gay thing like people originally thought. he allegedly had no idea Pulse was a gay club, and simply Googled “Orlando nightclubs” after finding that security at his original target, a Disney shopping and entertainment complex, was too high.

Which goes to show that if people are armed somewhere or there is security somewhere it could turn a criminal away.







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Are you new? Facts don't matter.

Besides Pulse there have been lots of instances of violence against that community and individuals. Pulse is just an 'in' to get them to think about violence at their front door (front hole? I don't know what to call anything anymore).

The left doesn't want people to think that way. Lefty thinking is basically socialism.
Like a government built with people that think a damn island is going to tip over is actually going to know how anything that's actually good for the people.

It is in both sides DNA. It will never be separated from the main two political parties. Same with abortion and religion

I think one spin on this is, one side doesn't want people to worry about what they do in the bedroom, or to their body, or how they vote. If that is the case, than why are people all up in arms about what someone should be or shouldn't be allowed to own? Because some people can't play nice, I have to lose my toys too?
Well Joe couldn't keep his dick in his pants and started raping a women in the parking lot, so now do all guys need to have their dicks cut off? Books, ideas, and how people vote can be equally as dangerous as a gun. But if we lose our abilities to own guns, what's to say we don't lose our other rights, and soon specific books or ideas are deemed just as bad. I think Europe went into the dark ages because people were using books and ideas to expand their thinking in ways those in power saw unfit and things went to shit. Sprinkle some religion and you have a similar situation today.

We all know that people get all upset about the taking of life, and yes guns are used for those reasons, two or four legged variety. But we all know that there are lots of other things that can take lives, and often times more lives than guns. I guess the idea would be to look at things in a per capita rate. If we have 300 million guns, and there are X number of murders, what is the percentage to guns owned and people killed? That doesn't even factor for those guns that are used multiple times to kill a number of people. The general number is pretty low compared to a variety of other ways people die, cars, drugs, medical malpractice, around the home accidents, etc.

We approach this as they are taking our rights and we don't want them taking more. But the other side doesn't mind having their rights taken as long as they are happy. Sort of an ignorance is bliss type of thing. If you look at a lot of our Amendments, many of them relate to criminal proceedings. So those who aren't breaking the law don't see this as an issue, but it is a slippery slope because as we chip away at our rights, the right to free speech, self incrimination, jury of peers, or cruel and unusual punishment will be skewed. At first the general populace will be ok, because those changes will be marketed as "common sense" and "greater good". However, when that general population starts getting into trouble for small stuff that wasn't an issue before, and starts serving time. Well by that time it is too late, and we have no way of back tracking. Those in power will have entrenched themselves so deep that the general populace won't be able to get their foot in the door to make a change. We will have become slaves to those with wealth, power, influence, and/or fame.

If we look at the world around us those countries that have gone away with personal protection have seen an increase in violence towards others. Beatings, stabbings, car/truck rammings, and acid attacks. Those same countries are taking away freedoms from the general populace, specifically targeting those that oppose those in power. Controlling media and social media outlets, what people can or can't say, or what people are allowed to own aren't making a safer society. Those in power stay in power because they have nothing to stop them, or strike fear in them. It seems like some of these ideas are gaining steam by our elected officials here in America, and soon we will all be slaves to the man. We need to learn from history or will be forced to repeat it.

I know it seems like a lot of ranting, or a string of ideas, but there are a lot of talking points that the non gun supporters fail to accept. Despite the fact they don't want to be controlled, yet have no problems relinquishing control under the guise of 'common sense' and 'greater good'.