That entire post was excellent but I wanted to call this out in particular. As both parties move toward the more extreme edges of the political spectrum, more people will find themselves in this abandoned middle area. Very few people are truly "left" or "right." These middle-ground people are the ones who are most likely to be open to using some critical thinking skills and forming their own opinions on guns. They're the ones we should try hardest to reach.

I will never vote Republican. Well, okay, I do vote for the occasional Republican, but in general, no. One right (2A support) does not a good party make.

And Pablo, "Sorry if I hurt your feelings"? Seriously? I mean, I know your fake tanned hero is a thin-skinned toilet-tweeting draft-dodging is the President, but he's also the biggest snowflake out there today.

I am pro-2A, always have been and always will be, but as I said before, I've been called names and otherwise held up for ridicule for not being cool with the Republican platform. And yes, I have quite a few Democratic friends who are of a similar line of thinking.

Mod Edit: No personal attacks allowed.

A woman on an anti-gun page said firearms were the #3 cause of death in U.S.

I posted the CDC info, and I was immediately banned, along with 'You're giving fake statistics, they won't let the CDC report the deaths!'...even though I was intentionally quoting 2015 numbers so she couldn't claim 'OMGZ Trump!'

I went to her page, and she has a ton of images like.... well...




When you cite data and its source, and the reply is 'nuh uh! That's fake! Because I say so!' then prevent you from responding further, there is no conversation to be had.

That's no longer a person to me, it's a threat to my way of life.

I said nothing about Trump or the Republican party. I merely stated the Democrat party, and yes THE PARTISAN PARTY is coming after MY guns. Pretty tough to make the topic non-partisan. Not asking you to change your party or love Trump (wow!) . Democrat party needs to stop the attack on civil rights of others. It's that simple. The attacks stop, it becomes non-partisan.

And that's why so many things in this country are fucked up

Its always a good way to start off a constructive conversation by insulting the people you have differences with, and no Im not talking about the comment above but the one that was deleted.

Living in a Liberal state and a very Liberal neighborhood minus a few, I took two very Anti "Assault weapon" (as they called it) guys from my daughters track team that are also neighbors shooting last fall. After we got done, they didn't want to go out and buy a rifle, they didn't want to go shooting all the time, but the most important thing they began to understand is that they are just a tool and actually pretty damn fun. It really helped that the guys at the Federal Way range were super informative and answered every question they were asked.

I just can't fathom how someone thinks that a big goverment, nanny state platform could possibly co-exist with the Second Amendment....ain't gonna happen

the problem with that line of thinking is that gun rights ARE tied to other issues. Government oppression (not just in the area of gun rights) is the VERY REASON THE SECOND AMENDMENT was written (sorry for yelling).

How long has it been since anyone on hear has read the list of abuses by King George outlined in the Declaration of Independence?

Seriously, go back and read it, a big, overpowering government, getting into every facet of your lives is NOT conducive to freedom, that is why the left opposes the 2nd Amendment, plain and simple.

I jump on and read and think every time someone posts ideas and thoughts in this thread. Some great input. I thank you sincerely. I hope that each of us can find something that rings true for him/her and makes some effort to win neighbors, friends, acquaintances.

Alright, TCB and other defeatists (I use that word in a non-negative way... just to indicate that they don't think that my original goal is possible) say that 2A is incompatible with the Democratic Party and its goals.

Let's re-frame the question.

How can we win as many MOTR voters as possible to 2A before things get out of hand, and by "out of hand" I mean before that dying tree gets its bath, as beckdw said.
Some people have already answered this in this way, which is the way that I intended at first. Personally, I agree with TCB et al, in that I do not think that we can educate and persuade our way out of the seemingly inevitable conflict. The Controlists have dug in so deep and hard, and we handed our children to them for indoctrination.
We the People screwed up bad.

People have talked about a pendulum effect, and how things will swing back eventually.
I say "Nay nay!" Look at what happens when Controlists dig their filthy claws into the meat of a nation... It enters a veritable Dark Ages, with the Soviet Union being the looming example that many of us grew up with.
If the tree of Liberty truly dies here in the USA, it may never live again in the form and substance that our Founding Fathers gave us. Humans do learn, and technology has given the Controlists the tools to keep a defenseless citizenry in perpetual darkness.

I think we need to re-frame the question entirely. Your question is based on the premise that we NEED Democrats in order to keep our guns. I don't think we do and here is why:

I don't believe that America divides itself 50/50 Democrat vs Republican, nor 50/50 left vs right. Only 30% +/- of the eligible voters vote in any given election (and quite a few ineligible democratic voters, but that is another discussion). I honestly believe that the vast majority of those that don't bother to vote would vote Republican or at least Pro-Gun, I think Trump stunning the pollsters was a small example of this.

What we should be focusing on is energizing all those lazy gun owners who don't bother to vote or join the NRA. If the NRA were 20 million members instead of 5, would we even be having this conversation? If all gun owners voted and voted Pro-Gun would we be worried about the Second Amendment?

This is not a personal attack and I am not being sarcastic. I am genuinely curious.

Joe McDermott, a prominent local democrat and the new King County Council chair has said he wants to come take away your glock pistol if state law is changed to allow it. That's not a far stretch of the imagination if AGR gets 1639 passed they'll go for preemption next.

Since you seem politically connected to local democrats, do you support McDermott? Did you help get him elected or help fund raise for him? If law changes, will you hand over your glock to him when he demands it? Again, not trying to attack you, I am genuinely curious what you think of this situation.

I believe that we would still, yes. Controlists are tough weeds, and they are planting roots into the minds of our children.
They are winning, whether we want to admit it or not. The world is changing, and it is not getting more free in regards to the Natural Right as described in 2A.


Fair points...
In my experience, sadly, not all gun owners are pro-2A. Surprising, but human.

Your suggested reframing of my question kills my question, and I see no need (or benefit) in stopping the sincere efforts to win Democrats, Liberals, and MOTR Americans to the understanding that 2A is a Natural Right, and necessary for ALL humans, not just Republicans and Libertarians.
I see your goal as admirable and worthy as a coinciding effort to prevent the watering of the Tree.

Not trying to be a defeatist, I just am not sure we need to expend the effort on people so bent on destroying western society.....

ah "to prevent the watering of the tree"....I am sure you are referring to Jefferson's quote about the tree of liberty needing to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants?

the meaning of the quote was that when too much time has passed, when people forget the dying that was done for their rights, when people forget what oppression was, liberty will be given away.

So why is it that you, me and so many others understand why liberty is so important and why others march in the streets demanding to have their rights taken away?

Brainwashed by a school system run by leftists? Brainwashed by a media that is run by leftists? Simply mentally deficient?

Perhaps our goal should be:

getting a school voucher system in place to take away the power the left holds over public schools

unplug from the MSM (a viable reality now a days) and convince others to do the same

Use Social Media as a platform to remind people how great America is (was).

Use alternate forms of social media, gun forums, right leaning platforms like Codias.

get more involved in politics and convince others to vote and join civil rights groups (GOA, NRA, CCRKBA)

remember it took the left a couple of generations to get this far, it may take two to three more to win it back

Taking this tact...

How would you characterize the NRA's current approach to 'reaching people'?