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It is currently Thu Feb 06, 2025 4:37 pm
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Should Americans subsidize "high risk" environmental areas?
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leadcounsel
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Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8131
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I don't necessarily have an opinion, but would like a dialogue from both the "yes" and "no" camps.
It's occurred to me that every year, generally the highly desirable and higher risk areas get slammed with storms, hurricanes, mudslides, and fires. These locations typically or often are clustered with $1 million + homes, lucrative vacation spots, etc.
Disaster relief efforts to the wealthy in these areas, on top of the subsidized insurance premiums we all pay, get tiresome. Yet these people rebuild in the same areas.
I purposefully choose to live in an area with low natural disaster risk; it's a less desirable location to live but that's okay. Some chose to live in the path of mudslides, hurricanes, regular forest fires, etc. so they can live in gorgeous lush or wonderland locations. Should I continue, year after year, to be fine with subsidizing their vacation lifestyles, homes/locations? It's like continuing to subsidize someone that's irresponsible. A "non-prepper" who comes to your house to borrow food every time there's a shortage. I am more inclined to help the poor or middle class, or the random disaster to those with no alternatives or forewarning. But what about the rich living in resort coastal areas that face this predictable event every year? For example. The rich continue to rebuild in the Florida Keys, or deep in the California forests where there are annual massive fires, or below sea level in the coastal areas of Louisiana, or on earthquake faultlines, and so forth. There's plenty of good open land elsewhere that's not subjected to big expensive predictable disasters. Shouldn't the folks sorta be disqualified from federal bail out money for building in disaster prone areas?
The other side of the coin is that we are all Americans, we band together to fight disaster and support each other (and typically the world in times of disaster). So that's just consistent with Christian values and generosity for fellow Americans, who would do the same for me.
Edited to add: I also recognize the political suicide it would be for a POTUS to ignore suffering here or there. Bush was slayed by the press in spite of it not being his fault that folks in the path of Katrina suffered.
What are your thoughts?
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
Last edited by leadcounsel on Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:42 am |
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golddigger14s
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Location: Faxon, OK Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 Posts: 18059
Real Name: Chuck
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God helps those who help themselves. Guess what? My name isn't God, and you come to me for help, have a nice day (insert door slamming noise).
_________________ "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:15 pm |
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Guntrader
In Memoriam
Location: Mukilteoish Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 Posts: 11589
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No, fuck 'em. They need to buy insurance or find somewhere else to live with a lower risk. If they can afford the house, they can afford the insurance. If they rent, they can get renters insurance.
Over half of the FEMA credit cards they handed out after Katrina went to people who had already received one or other fraudsters who weren't even there.
_________________ NRA Endowment Member. How did they know my member was well endowed?
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:22 pm |
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TINCANBANDIT
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Location: Mohave Valley Arizona Joined: Fri May 20, 2011 Posts: 13384
Real Name: Casey
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no one is stupid enough to not know that hurricanes hit the southern US states, nor are the dumb enough to think that their mobile home will survive a tornado...these people play the odds, just like we do here. Someday a massive quake will wreck havoc on the PNW, and we will have to live with it. I wouldn't expect New Yorkers or Texans to pay for my damaged goods.
_________________Actor portrayal, Action figures sold separately, You must be at least this tall to ride, Individual results may vary, Sales tax not included, All models are over 18 years of age, upon approval of credit, Quantities are limited while supplies last, Some restrictions apply, Not available with other offers, At participating locations only, Void where prohibited, Above terms subject to change without notice, Patent pending.See my blog: http://tincanbandit.blogspot.com/
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:09 pm |
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jukk0u
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Location: Idaho, Land of the Free Joined: Wed May 1, 2013 Posts: 22302
Real Name: Vick Lagina
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You have to believe that those insurance claims make prices for insurance climb for all.
No, I do not believe tax dollars should be pent on repeated fixes and claims. One and done.
_________________ “I really don't care, Margaret." ~JD Vance
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:06 pm |
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Alpine
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Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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Hate to break it to you but if you live in WA then most parts of the state are at "high risk" due to proximity to one of the most active stratocone (explosive, not gentle like basaltic) volcanos on the planet, Mt. Rainier. If it fully went off the pyroclastic cloud alone could liquify Graham, Orting etc. Pyroclastic missiles would go as far as Seattle or Everett and maybe to the San Juans or Ellensberg.
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:13 pm |
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GeekWithGuns
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Location: Round Rock, TX Joined: Thu Mar 5, 2015 Posts: 3898
Real Name: Dave
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My two cents. There's very few, if any, 'low risk' areas in the United States: West Coast - earthquakes & volcanoes. The largest Cascade volcano by volume is in Northern California, the Medicine Lake Volcano (not necessarily most dangerous, that would go to Mt St Helens or Mt Rainier) Midwest - Tornadoes, lightning and hail Gulf Coast & Southeast - Tropical storms, hurricanes, tornadoes (in Texas), occasional winter ice storms Northeast - Nor'easters & harsh winter weather & snow
The whole point of insurance is distributing risk. Presumably those who live in really high risk areas pay a higher premium for insurance. Otherwise, the financial risk is distributed throughout all the policy holders in the US and probably Canada as well given the multi-national nature of most insurance companies.
Starting down the road of quibbling over who really deserves benefits is the path to endless finger pointing and hair splitting given that most regions have substantial natural risks, albeit just different ones.
_________________ There are dead horses yet to be slain.... - NWGunner
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:21 pm |
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A Null
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Location: Federal Way Joined: Fri Aug 9, 2013 Posts: 953
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Government prices flood insurance so low that no one else will write policies for it, so the gov't is subsidizing those 1+ million dollar homes and when a hurricane hits your house your insurance company says. "hey , look, water caused the problem" and screws you out of your house.
solution, slowly raise government flood insurance rates +5% / year then, eventually, you will buy flood insurance from the same company you buy your homeowners insurance. Having them split is begging for problems.
THEN people will be truley paying the risk for their homes and you probably won't be seeing 1+ million $ homes next to a sandy beach in hurricane alley
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:30 pm |
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A Null
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Location: Federal Way Joined: Fri Aug 9, 2013 Posts: 953
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:31 pm |
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leadcounsel
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Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8131
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I don't mind helping Americans, but this should be voluntary. What bothers me is the government's selecting winners and losers, and often based on voting districts.
Look at it this way.
If I get cancer, lose my job, lose my insurance, lose my savings, and get foreclosed on and lose my home, nobody is going to bail me out.
Conversely, if I'm a millionaire and build a McMansion in a fire zone or hurricane zone and it burns or washes away, the feds will come in and fix it whist I vacation on my yacht in the Bahamas.
This to me seems really unfair. If we're going to offer bailout money, then we should selected the truly needy or those hit by totally unforeseen catastrophe. Otherwise, we should say tough luck.
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:29 pm |
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Ace
Location: KC area Missouri Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 Posts: 1666
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Alpine wrote: Hate to break it to you but if you live in WA then most parts of the state are at "high risk" due to proximity to one of the most active stratocone (explosive, not gentle like basaltic) volcanos on the planet, Mt. Rainier. If it fully went off the pyroclastic cloud alone could liquify Graham, Orting etc. Pyroclastic missiles would go as far as Seattle or Everett and maybe to the San Juans or Ellensberg. What I pray for each and every day is a direct hit to Seattle. A lot problems would be solved there.
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:40 pm |
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leadcounsel
Site Supporter
Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8131
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Alpine wrote: Hate to break it to you but if you live in WA then most parts of the state are at "high risk" due to proximity to one of the most active stratocone (explosive, not gentle like basaltic) volcanos on the planet, Mt. Rainier. If it fully went off the pyroclastic cloud alone could liquify Graham, Orting etc. Pyroclastic missiles would go as far as Seattle or Everett and maybe to the San Juans or Ellensberg. And, I suspect my PRIVATELY PAID FOR insurance against fire or damages would cover damages from a destroyed house. I wouldn't expect the rest of America to pay for my house... So why do we bail out coastal SE/E America every year? Or California forest fire victims? Or folks in Tornado alley?
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:49 pm |
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Alpine
Site Supporter
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 Posts: 7649
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leadcounsel wrote: Alpine wrote: Hate to break it to you but if you live in WA then most parts of the state are at "high risk" due to proximity to one of the most active stratocone (explosive, not gentle like basaltic) volcanos on the planet, Mt. Rainier. If it fully went off the pyroclastic cloud alone could liquify Graham, Orting etc. Pyroclastic missiles would go as far as Seattle or Everett and maybe to the San Juans or Ellensberg. And, I suspect my PRIVATELY PAID FOR insurance against fire or damages would cover damages from a destroyed house. I wouldn't expect the rest of America to pay for my house... So why do we bail out coastal SE/E America every year? Or California forest fire victims? Or folks in Tornado alley? Which insurance company do you have? If a major quake hits Seattle or Mt Rainier blows there's a good chance a lot of WA insurance companies will go under and not be able to pay out to many or possibly even most of their insured.
_________________If you vote for Biden you are voting to be murdered when he sends Beto to come take your "semi automatic assault weapon" (any semi auto). If you have family or friends voting for Biden show them this and ask if they are willing to vote for your murder or maybe even their own if they are gun owners or live with any. https://nypost.com/2020/03/03/joe-biden ... n-control/Quote: “I want to make something clear, I’m going to guarantee you this is not the last you’ve seen of him (Beto),” Biden said Monday evening during a campaign rally in Dallas. “You’re (Beto) going to take care of the gun problem with me. You’re (Beto) going to be the one who leads this effort.” https://www.newsweek.com/beto-orourke-g ... ns-1465738Quote: [Beto O'Rourke Suggests Police Would 'Visit' Homes To Implement Proposed Assault Weapons Ban] "In that case, I think that there would be a visit by law enforcement to recover that firearm... ..."If someone does not turn in an AR-15 or an AK-47, one of these weapons of war...then that weapon will be taken from them"
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:56 pm |
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golddigger14s
Site Supporter
Location: Faxon, OK Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 Posts: 18059
Real Name: Chuck
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Alpine wrote: leadcounsel wrote: Alpine wrote: Hate to break it to you but if you live in WA then most parts of the state are at "high risk" due to proximity to one of the most active stratocone (explosive, not gentle like basaltic) volcanos on the planet, Mt. Rainier. If it fully went off the pyroclastic cloud alone could liquify Graham, Orting etc. Pyroclastic missiles would go as far as Seattle or Everett and maybe to the San Juans or Ellensberg. And, I suspect my PRIVATELY PAID FOR insurance against fire or damages would cover damages from a destroyed house. I wouldn't expect the rest of America to pay for my house... So why do we bail out coastal SE/E America every year? Or California forest fire victims? Or folks in Tornado alley? Which insurance company do you have? If a major quake hits Seattle or Mt Rainier blows there's a good chance a lot of WA insurance companies will go under and not be able to pay out to many or possibly even most of their insured. Remember, flood, earthquake, eruption, and some other catastrophes are NOT covered by regular homeowners insurance. I had to hire an elevation expert to minimize how much I paid for flood insurance in El Paso (required).
_________________ "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:40 pm |
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leadcounsel
Site Supporter
Location: Can't say Joined: Sun Sep 7, 2014 Posts: 8131
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Problem is, the fairness aspect. I've had my share of devastating misfortune and bad luck. I've yet to be bailed out....
So picking winners and losers really isn't something the government should do, because it's inherently unfair.
_________________ I defend the 2A. US Army Combat Veteran and Paratrooper: OIF Veteran. BSM and MSM recipient. NRA Lifetime. Entertainment purposes only. I'm a lawyer, but have not offered you legal advice.
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| Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:12 pm |
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